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"Rolling attack dice" / "Rolling defense dice" timing


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What timing step or steps is "rolling attack or defense dice" supposed to represent?

Shuri, Black Panther, Beast, Modok etc are all played as though that wording is triggered and resolved in step 9. I've had no luck digging up any official statements on those though.

Domino & Loki however appear to establish that either Step 6 or Step 7 (depending on whether its attack or defense) is at least the first timing step that is the trigger for that wording. There are official statements backing this up for Loki and its the only timing conclusion I believe you can draw for Domino.

We know that the time an ability triggers and is paid for vs when it resolves can be different; so based on how we handle Loki & Domino, I would think that Shuri etc. actually need to pay their power in step 6/7 and then resolve the re-rolls in step 9.

The only way I can resolve things within the context of the overall system(other than we've all been playing shuri etc wrong) is if that wording actually triggers multiple times, in step 6/7, maybe 8? and in step 9.

So just looking to understand the differences here.

Thanks for the help!

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Effects that trigger when rolling attack or defense dice will trigger and be paid for after that step occurs. This will be at the end of step 6 for special rules that trigger when rolling attack dice and at the end of step 7 for special rules that trigger when rolling defense dice.

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To clarify then, does this mean we have to prepaid for MODOK's reroll before he sees the result from his critical rolls? For Domino, it was pretty clear but MODOK's reroll was worded to seem it was pretty open ended. 

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2 minutes ago, Nukesquad said:

To clarify then, does this mean we have to prepaid for MODOK's reroll before he sees the result from his critical rolls? For Domino, it was pretty clear but MODOK's reroll was worded to seem it was pretty open ended. 

Yes.

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1 hour ago, Artdieart said:

What is the timing of the X force leadership Wetworks? It doesn't specify when you have to chose. I assume you do it in step 9 of the timing chart. 

Step 9 of the Appendix A chart.

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I just want to make sure I have this right, can I check what we are saying here is:

1) Characters (such as MODOK & Wakanda) who have to pay for a re-roll and the re-roll states ' After this characters rolls attack or defense dice, it may reroll X number of dice - they must now declare, and pay the power for said re-rolls before any crits are resolved?

2) anyone (like Shuri) where it clearly states during 'calculate success' do not have to pay for the power upfront?

3) nothing has changed for characters that have, or provide re-rolls that are no cost?

Is this right or have I oversimplified it? Also if 1) is correct, does the attacking player declare their re-rolls before the defending player has rolled their initial dice pool??

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So, to better understand, if the effect is triggered and paid after step 6/7, does it mean I would be able to pay at that point for rerolls of any dice added afterwards? And thus, all rerolls would happen at the usual step. Or are these rerolls taking place at the time they are paid for?

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9 hours ago, Negoldar said:

Effects that trigger when rolling attack or defense dice will trigger and be paid for after that step occurs. This will be at the end of step 6 for special rules that trigger when rolling attack dice and at the end of step 7 for special rules that trigger when rolling defense dice.

When you have to roll  the dices than trigger in step 6 or 7. After step 6 (before step 7) and/or final step 7, or in step 9????? For example, Beast Pay 2 (in step 7) for rerrol 2 dice in defense.  When roll its dices, after step 7 or in step 9. Thanks

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6 hours ago, RichMid said:

I just want to make sure I have this right, can I check what we are saying here is:

1) Characters (such as MODOK & Wakanda) who have to pay for a re-roll and the re-roll states ' After this characters rolls attack or defense dice, it may reroll X number of dice - they must now declare, and pay the power for said re-rolls before any crits are resolved?

2) anyone (like Shuri) where it clearly states during 'calculate success' do not have to pay for the power upfront?

3) nothing has changed for characters that have, or provide re-rolls that are no cost?

Is this right or have I oversimplified it? Also if 1) is correct, does the attacking player declare their re-rolls before the defending player has rolled their initial dice pool??

1. Correct.

2. For Super Genius, yes. For Upgrades, she falls into the same category as the characters in the first question.

3. If those characters are not using the same terminology, nothing has changed.

4. Yes, the attacking character declares before the defender rolls their initial dice pool.

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3 hours ago, Atrok said:

So, to better understand, if the effect is triggered and paid after step 6/7, does it mean I would be able to pay at that point for rerolls of any dice added afterwards? And thus, all rerolls would happen at the usual step. Or are these rerolls taking place at the time they are paid for?

The timing of the actual rerolls are still in step 9 at the appropriate substep. The declaration of the ability and the payment of power is used in step 6 or 7 depending on if the character is attacking or defending, respectively.

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2 hours ago, Jon said:

When you have to roll  the dices than trigger in step 6 or 7. After step 6 (before step 7) and/or final step 7, or in step 9????? For example, Beast Pay 2 (in step 7) for rerrol 2 dice in defense.  When roll its dices, after step 7 or in step 9. Thanks

The rerolls still happen in step 9 at the appropriate substep.

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Does this impact Doctor Strange's Eye of Agamotto? I have read other posts in the past that seem to make me think it doesn't, but this thread makes me think otherwise. 

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7 hours ago, Tarbell said:

Does this impact Doctor Strange's Eye of Agamotto? I have read other posts in the past that seem to make me think it doesn't, but this thread makes me think otherwise. 

It does not. Eye of Agamotto does not have the same timing. It is declared and resolves during step 9 of the timing chart. 

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Just to get it officially stated, can we extrapolate from this that "after rolling dodge dice" refers to Step 2 of the dodging "timing chart" currently found on page 24?

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7 hours ago, Thoras said:

Just to get it officially stated, can we extrapolate from this that "after rolling dodge dice" refers to Step 2 of the dodging "timing chart" currently found on page 24?

Yes. 

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On 7/9/2021 at 3:19 PM, NewPalpatine said:

Are the dice generated by the Crits not also “attack” or “defense” dice?

Attack and defense dice are rolled in steps 6 and 7, respectively. 

Critical dice are additional dice that get added to the attack and defense roll. 

Dice that are part of the roll are attack and defense dice. 

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If MODOK is within Range 4 of an allied Shuri and rolls a hit and a skull on a physical defense roll, can he and Shuri both pay one power after MODOK rolls defense dice? Would this allow the player to re-roll the hit twice if necessary, once for upgrades and a second time for Pea-Brain? The skull could not be re-rolled and if a block is rolled on the first re-roll, the power for the second would be wasted. Is this correct?

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4 hours ago, Griff said:

If MODOK is within Range 4 of an allied Shuri and rolls a hit and a skull on a physical defense roll, can he and Shuri both pay one power after MODOK rolls defense dice? Would this allow the player to re-roll the hit twice if necessary, once for upgrades and a second time for Pea-Brain? The skull could not be re-rolled and if a block is rolled on the first re-roll, the power for the second would be wasted. Is this correct?

Yes both could pay 1. 

Yes, it would allow the die to be rerolled twice. 

Yes, the second power would be wasted in this scenario. 

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