Tournament Scoring - Tabling Fleets with a Fleet Point Value greater than 400

[Duke]

In a tournament game using the Tournament Regulations, if a player destroys all of his or her opponent’s ships that are not flotillas, and the total ship, squadron and upgrade cards are worth more than 400 points is that fleet still worth 400 fleet points for the purposes of calculating score?

Does this depend on why the fleet point value has been increased, i.e. by an effect like Chimaera changing a Fleet Command for a higher point cost Fleet Command, by a ship with Mercy Mission equipped, or by an Objective Ship playing Advanced Gunnery or Most Wanted (which both increase the fleet point cost of the ship, rather than adding points to the final score as with Opening Salvo)?

[Tournament Rules, p9, Calculating a Player's Score / Rule Reference 1.5.0 p43, Chimaera]
 

To clarify, the part about Mercy Mission refers to when it is equipped to one of the opponent's ships and is destroyed, not when it survives and is in the enemy deployment zone.

And while we are here, an easy one; the text of the Tournament Rules says that "[i]f a player destroys all of his or her opponent's ships that are not flotillas, the opponent's fleet is worth 400 points for the purposes of calculating score" but the player's score only includes the opponent's "destroyed ships [and] destroyed squadrons." If a player destroys all enemy ships that are not flotillas, are they taken to have destroyed the entire fleet for the purposes of calculating score?
 

The question is whether the extra point from Chimeara swapping, and the increase in fleet point value from Mercy Mission (destroyed ship only), Advanced Gunnery and Most Wanted are included when calculating a score after tabling.

I'll try some examples.

My opponent is a Republic List, worth 399 points. I destroy all their ships, including a Consular-class Charger c70 (45 points) with Mercy Mission Equipped. All that is left alive is an Axe V-19 (17 points). They destroy a naked ISD II (120 points). There are no points from objectives The game ends and I win:

My opponent's score is 120 (from the ISD II). What is my score? Is it:

1. 400 (giving an MOV of 400-120 = 280 for 9-2 Tournament Points): due to the rule that "the opponent’s fleet is worth 400 fleet points for the purposes of calculating score" if I destroyed all their ships?
2. 420 (giving an MOV of 420-120 = 300 for 10-1 Tournament Points): due to the above rule, that the fleet points are taken to be 400, but including the 20 fleet point increase to the value of the Mercy Mission ship?
3. Some other value (maybe 399+20=419, 399-17+20=402)?

Same scenario again, but this time there is no Mercy Mission, but that Consular-class Charger is a Most Wanted Objective Ship. What is my score?

1. 400; due to the rule that "the opponent's fleet is worth 400 fleet points for the purposes of calculating score"?
2. 445; due to the above rule, but with extra points because the fleet point cost of the c70 was 45 higher due to Most Wanted?
3. Some other value (maybe 399+45 = 444, or 399-17+45=427)?

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During a tournament game, if a player destroys all their opponent's ships that are not flotillas, do bonus points from destroying a ship with Mercy Mission, or destroying an Advanced Gunnery or Most Wanted Objective ship get added to the 400 points for "tabling"?

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By my reading, the effect of destroying a Mercy Mission, Advanced Gunnery or Most Wanted ship is to increase that ship's fleet point value. The actual fleet point value of the destroyed ships, squadrons etc. might be more than 400 (due to the bonus points, even with some surviving squadrons or flotillas), but due to the tabling rule the value for calculating score would be only 400 points. Meaning there are non-trivial situations where a player would get a higher score (and potentially higher MoV) by not tabling their opponent.

The same would apply with a 400-point Imperial list with Chimaera, and with a Fleet Command swapped for a higher value one, but that would be a difference of only 1 point (for now), so less of an issue (more along the lines of the weird situation with getting half-points on an odd-value cost SSD playing Opening Salvo, where killing it is worth fewer points than leaving it damaged).

 

 

 

[DSchultz]

 
Hello Duke, thank you for your patience as your initial questions and follow up questions were reviewed. I can understand how confusing this subject matter can be, so these answers should clear this up.

Due to the lengthy subject matter, Duke's responses and mine have been edited to better fit this forums format.

For anyone reading this, PLEASE follow forum guidelines of only "one question per topic" as multiple "what-ifs" and follow up questions can quickly muddle what the initial question being asked is, which leads to longer response time and potentially confusing answers.

 

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In a tournament game using the Tournament Regulations, if a player destroys all of his or her opponent’s ships that are not flotillas, and the total ship, squadron and upgrade cards are worth more than 400 points is that fleet still worth 400 fleet points for the purposes of calculating score?

If a player destroys all enemy ships that are not flotillas, are they taken to have destroyed the entire fleet for the purposes of calculating score?

Yes, a fleet can be worth more than 400 points as all currently equipped upgrade cards and their point costs are counted. But it cannot be worth less than 400 points.

No. They are not considered destroyed, but their point value is still calculated for scoring purposes.

Regardless of what the total score is for either player at the end of the game, "the winning player subtracts the loser’s score from his or her score.".
Note, the maximum Margin of Victory a winning player can score is 400, and the minimum Margin of Victory a winning player can score is 0.

 

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I'll try some examples.

My opponent is a Republic List, worth 399 points. I destroy all their ships, including a Consular-class Charger c70 (45 points) with Mercy Mission Equipped. All that is left alive is an Axe V-19 (17 points). They destroy a naked ISD II (120 points). There are no points from objectives The game ends and I win:

My opponent's score is 120 (from the ISD II). What is my score? Is it:

1. 400 (giving an MOV of 400-120 = 280 for 9-2 Tournament Points): due to the rule that "the opponent’s fleet is worth 400 fleet points for the purposes of calculating score" if I destroyed all their ships?
2. 420 (giving an MOV of 420-120 = 300 for 10-1 Tournament Points): due to the above rule, that the fleet points are taken to be 400, but including the 20 fleet point increase to the value of the Mercy Mission ship?
3. Some other value (maybe 399+20=419, 399-17+20=402)?

Same scenario again, but this time there is no Mercy Mission, but that Consular-class Charger is a Most Wanted Objective Ship. What is my score?

1. 400; due to the rule that "the opponent's fleet is worth 400 fleet points for the purposes of calculating score"?
2. 445; due to the above rule, but with extra points because the fleet point cost of the c70 was 45 higher due to Most Wanted?
3. Some other value (maybe 399+45 = 444, or 399-17+45=427)?

 

 

For your first example.
Number 2 is correct.

For your second example,
Number 2 is correct.

 

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During a tournament game, if a player destroys all their opponent's ships that are not flotillas, do bonus points from destroying a ship with Mercy Mission, or destroying an Advanced Gunnery or Most Wanted Objective ship get added to the 400 points for "tabling"?

Yes, the score is added to the "total fleet point value" then used to determine Margin of Victory.

 

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By my reading, the effect of destroying a Mercy Mission, Advanced Gunnery or Most Wanted ship is to increase that ship's fleet point value, not the final score (as Opening Salvo does, or a successful Mercy Mission). Therefore those points get counted before the tabling rule comes into effect and the fleet is set to 400 points. The actual fleet point value of the destroyed ships, squadrons etc. might be more than 400 (due to the bonus points, even with some surviving squadrons or flotillas), but due to the tabling rule the value for calculating score would be only 400 points. Meaning there are non-trivial situations where a player would get a higher score (and potentially higher MoV) by not tabling their opponent.

The same would apply with a 400-point Imperial list with Chimaera, and with a Fleet Command swapped for a higher value one, but that would be a difference of only 1 point (for now), so less of an issue (more along the lines of the weird situation with getting half-points on an odd-value cost SSD playing Opening Salvo, where killing it is worth fewer points than leaving it damaged).

 

Thank you for your opinion, hopefully this answer helps.

In short, "total fleet point value" and "final score" (mentioned by Opening Salvo) are different wordings that mean the same thing. The scores that each player obtain in order for the winner's score to be then subtracted by the losers score.

Meaning, if an opponents fleet is worth less than 400 points, it is rounded up to at least 400 points, and then any additional points granted by card effects are then applied to increase a players "total fleet point value" / "final score". Such as from Mercy Mission, Most Wanted, etc.

The total fleet point value that a player obtains in order to then determine the winning players MoV.
Once this total fleet point value is obtained, then "the winning player subtracts the loser’s score from his or her score. This is the winner’s Margin of Victory (“MoV”) for the round."