Player Turn Order

[Feytill]

Hello, I reaching out in order to clarify what seems to be a dispute between the core rules and what Neogoldar/Thoras have been posting in regards to player turn sequencing.

Per what can be gathered from the core rules, on page 14:

1. A player's turn begins when their opponent declares their turn to be over.
2. During your turn you select a character to activate.
3. That character may perform 2 actions as listed.
   1. After the 2nd activation it may "use any super powers, interact abilities or other special rules it wishes, then its activation ends"
4. Your turn is over when declared.

Now, per the anytime rule listed (pg 15) for team tactics cards, I should be able to play them before selecting a character, after having done so, after that characters 1st action has been resolved, and after the second action has been resolved, as it's currently my turn and no actions or effects are being interrupted.  However, the moderators have been been posting recently that seems to run contrary stating that the players turn is over immediately upon the character performing a second action (Threads regarding Cosmic Invigoration/Difficult to please), and that no special effects (Team tactics cards or super powers) may be played after the 2nd action (Omega Red Death Spores thread).  This is direct violation of the rulebook's "Activating a Character" on page 14 that states it may use any super powers, interact abilities, or other special rules, and against the described player turn start/end, which would allow for using Active TT cards after the activation token is placed. I do want to be broad here and not just talk about Invigoration specifically, because this also applies to ALL tactics cards.

Why is this the case?  And if so, when should you be allowed to use Active Team Tactics and Active Superpowers if the Anytime rule is being restricted arbitrarily, what is the forums prescribed order of sequencing?   Apologies if this post comes off overly aggressive, but my local group has stopped playing the game almost all together over disputes between the rulebook vs Thoras/Neogoldar, and an email directly to AMG Info had me rerouted here.  

[Thoras]

It sounds like there is a misunderstanding somewhere.

35 minutes ago, Feytill said:

I should be able to play them before selecting a character

Correct

35 minutes ago, Feytill said:

after having done so

Correct

35 minutes ago, Feytill said:

after that characters 1st action has been resolved

Correct

35 minutes ago, Feytill said:

and after the second action has been resolved

Correct

36 minutes ago, Feytill said:

However, the moderators have been been posting recently that seems to run contrary stating that the players turn is over immediately upon the character performing a second action (Threads regarding Cosmic Invigoration/Difficult to please), and that no special effects (Team tactics cards or super powers) may be played after the 2nd action (Omega Red Death Spores thread)

Could you post the wording in these threads that is causing the issue, linking the threads in question as well is also appreciated.

I'm not aware of any posts where we have claimed this. Keep in mind that several old posts were updated from previous rulings to reflect the new rules after the Core Rules Update on November 22nd, so the older posts in those threads will have information that has been struck out. None of the old posts should have claimed that either though.

The players turn is over at the end of the characters activation, but this is not linked to the character using their second action. The placement of the activated token is no longer linked to the use of the second action either and there shouldn't be any posts that still say this.

40 minutes ago, Feytill said:

which would allow for using Active TT cards after the activation token is placed

This is not true any longer. Before the Core rules update on November 22nd 2021, the activated token was placed after the second action. You could then use team tactic cards after the placement of the token as it was still the characters activation and thus still the players turn.

After that Core Rules update though, the activated token is no longer placed after the second action. It is now placed at the end of the characters activation, which is also the end of the players turn. The activation does not end until it is declared finished by the player or is forced to end due to some other effect (such as the character being dazed).

[Feytill]

This could be misread due to the embed in an embed, but the way that I read the replies was that Death Factor (and thus any active superpower) could not be used after the 2nd activation, period.

As far as the player's turn ending with the activation token, is that a forum agreed rule or an official rule hiding somewhere in the FAQ/Rulebook I missed.  Having multiple interpretations from different groups is difficult to resolve based on how much stock one places in the forums.  I'm just trying to understand the logic and the why/where the ruling is made so that it can be applied when discussing with others.

I'm having a hard time reconciling this:

 

1 hour ago, Feytill said:

and after the second action has been resolved

Correct

With what the the rule book describes as being allowed on pg14 and with how you're describing the turn ends.  If I take the rule book verbatim, it sounds that a Tactic card is not a special effect, so could not be played after the second activation and the activation token is placed.  It does leave a window to play an Active card, like Medpack or Cosmic Invigoration, before declaring my turn over.  Trying to apply this forums interpretation however, I don't have a window after the 2nd action and the activation token is placed, and now nor do I after, so I'm only able to play Active Team cards before the 1st or after the 1st action. 

[Thoras]

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This could be misread due to the embed in an embed, but the way that I read the replies was that Death Factor (and thus any active superpower) could not be used after the 2nd activation, period.

You appear to be using action and activation interchangeably, which may be a part of the confusion. Note that they are not the same thing.

Active superpowers can be used after a characters second action, but they can not be used after the characters activation is over.

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As far as the player's turn ending with the activation token

The activated token is not the end of the players turn in and of itself. It is placed during the end of a characters activation. Once the end of activation effects are resolved, the activation is over and also the turn.

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Having multiple interpretations from different groups is difficult to resolve based on how much stock one places in the forums

Up to date/current forum posts supersede all other game rules and are the final say in any rules dispute.

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so could not be played after the second activation and the activation token is placed

The activated token is not placed after the second action anymore, it is placed at the end of the characters activation.

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I don't have a window after the 2nd action and the activation token is placed

You do have a window after the second action, as long as the activation is not over. The activated token is no longer placed after the second action as you indicate here.

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"After a character has made all of its actions it may use any super powers, interact abilities or other special rules it wishes,"

Do you have the above quote at the end of page 14 in the version of the rule book you are currently using?

[Feytill]

From the 11/22 PDF

Using the rules priority as the lead off point (Special rules, superpowers and TTCards are defined separately), and that Team Tactics cards are never referred to in the book as special effects, is what leads to me to be believe that after a second action is made by a character, there isn't an allowed window anymore with the current ruling.  If a Team Tactic card is in fact a special rule, then I see what you see (I hope), it just doesn't ever seem to be defined as such and thus I refer to it's Anytime rule for play guidance.

I appreciate your patience with this, I normally Tournament Organize for Warhammer 40k, so just trying to wrap my "TO" head around it so when it comes time to participate in the local events I know what is what and which is which so to speak, and my local is very passionate about rules as written vs rules as intended.  And apologies for referring to you as Neogoldar, fingers did more thinking than the brain in the prior.

[Thoras]

Team tactics cards are a type of special rule.

This will be made clearer in the future.