Life saver style effects and attacks from tactics cards

[Waffle1k]

I have heard it mentioned in a few podcasts now that effects like Life Saver and Escort to Safety, when used in response to attacks granted by Team Tactics Cards such as Helios Laser and Richochet blast, can effectively cause the attack card to be "wasted." Just looking for some clarification on this ruling and how it works.

[Thoras]

Life Saver and Escort to Safety can end an attack in progress if you meet their specific criteria.

If you satisfy the conditions to end the attack, the attacking character has still made that attack though. It doesn’t matter whether it was ended early or whether it went through all of the timing steps.

This means if it was a once per activation attack, the character can’t make the attack again. It also means if you had used a superpower that affected the next attack, that superpower has also been used.

[JerBear_IRL]

This conflicts with what I was told by Negoldar the timing of attacks. I was informed that a single target attack does not get to the step where it would be considered resolved if life saver was used. Therefore it does not spend the power to do said attack and abilities like So Many Snacks cant be used afterwards. Could you clarify why superpowers affecting next attack would be used/wasted if the attack is not considered to have gone off?

Link to chat with Negoldar

 

[Thoras]

39 minutes ago, JerBear_IRL said:

Could you clarify why superpowers affecting next attack would be used/wasted if the attack is not considered to have gone off?

I think the below portion is where there seems to be some confusion.

Quote

Negoldar said "No. The attack never resolves (step 14) in this scenario so So Many Snacks cannot be used. This applies to single target attacks as well."

"The attack never resolves" does not mean "the attack wasn't used".

Notice the reference to "Step 14", which is the specific timing step that covers "After the attack is resolved" effects. The attack was used, it just ends early before it reaches that step.

Is that the spot you were questioning? Does that help clarify?

[JerBear_IRL]

4 hours ago, Thoras said:

I think the below portion is where there seems to be some confusion.

"The attack never resolves" does not mean "the attack wasn't used".

Notice the reference to "Step 14", which is the specific timing step that covers "After the attack is resolved" effects. The attack was used, it just ends early before it reaches that step.

Is that the spot you were questioning? Does that help clarify?

So if the attack it still used would it not then, even for a single target attack, use the power to make the attack. In this example Negoldar makes it seem like the attack is stopped at a later step but when I had asked he stated it stopped at step 2 before power was spent. To me that seems like the attack does not even get a chance to get to the attack part of the phase. There are just too many steps that things can be considered in one step or another.

[Negoldar]

6 hours ago, JerBear_IRL said:

So if the attack it still used would it not then, even for a single target attack, use the power to make the attack.

Power is spent in step 3 of the attack chart. If the attack ends in step 2d like it might when Life Saver is triggered, there is no opportunity to do anything that would normally happen after that step including spending power. 

6 hours ago, JerBear_IRL said:

To me that seems like the attack does not even get a chance to get to the attack part of the phase.

The entire attack sequence outlined in Appendix A is the attack. In the case of Life Saver, it may be stopped before dice roll, but the attack was made. That is why effects like Glaive’s Edge will be consumed and once per activation attacks like Ricochet Blast will count as being used. 

My comments in the previous thread are specific to the timing steps outlined in Appendix A. 

The mentioned example regarding So Many Snacks highlights that the attack ends before it resolves (step 14) and so never gets to step 14b which is the timing for So Many Snacks. The exact timing it ends in that example is step 2d (Life Saver’s timing).