Malekith Cloak of Shadows 'Treat's As' Skulls to Crits

[Dyzard]

Does Cloak of Shadows make the skull treated as a crit for both players, For instance if Dormammu is attacking Malekith and Malekith pays for the skulls would dormammu get to count them as successes or are they treated as crits. The Cloak of Shadows Superpower does not state this character treats as crits it just states that skulls are treated as Crits for the roll entirely

[Mc1gamer]

Please explain how this interacts with Venom (modifications) as well as if this actually changes to result or not for powers that Wanda, Dormmamu have that benefit form opponents who roll skulls. How is this different from Counts As, etc.? Thanks!!

[Thoras]

@Dyzard@Mc1gamer

When counting a certain result as a success, the result never changes, it just overrides the core rules as to which results count as successes.

When modifying a result, you are physically changing the die from one result to another result. This is generally accomplished either via rerolls or just changing it from one result to another.

When treating a result as another result type, you are not actually physically modifying the result, you are just saying that it is the new result type. When treating a die as another die, that die effectively IS the new type for all game purposes.

Venom and other abilities that prevent a character from modifying their defense dice prevent the second type, where the result is physically changing.

Dormammu adds the number of failure results in the defense roll to his total successes when attacking. If the defender were to "count failures as successes", then both Dormammu and the defender would get to count them. If the defender was to “treat a failure as a critical”, Dormammu does not get to add those results because they are not failures anymore, they are criticals

[Regnix]

Just wanted to point out that shields and blanks are also failures when attacking so the language used for Dormammu counting skulls may be confusing 

[Thoras]

5 hours ago, Regnix said:

Just wanted to point out that shields and blanks are also failures when attacking so the language used for Dormammu counting skulls may be confusing 

 There is a bit of confusion here when comparing how people talk about the game and how the rules label things.

"Failures" is not a generic term or description, its actually the proper name for the die face that is commonly referred to as "skulls". Shields and blanks are not "failures" when attacking from the rules perspective, they just don't count as successes.

 

[Nobility]

So if I understand this right - if Malekith rolls a 7 dice attack and rolls 6 blanks and 1 skull, pays an energy to treat the skull result as a critical result which then yields one more blank, then an enemy ghost rider can activate wicked judgment and deal 1 damage to him?

 

That just doesn’t seem right to me because you’re not physically modifying the skull result to a critical result, and ghost rider’s wicked judgment reads that it does damage per critical result in the roll. It doesn’t say that it deals damage per die treated as a critical result.

 

Likewise, dormammu’s card just says that when attacking, he gets to count the number of skulls in both the attack and defense roll. It doesn’t say that it cares if the skull is being treated as something else. Since it wasn’t physically modified, it’s still a skull so just going off of the text and the dice, it should count as a success for dormammu and for Malekith.

 

I’m just clarifying because this doesn’t intuitively make any sense to me. 

[Negoldar]

46 minutes ago, Nobility said:

Malekith rolls a 7 dice attack and rolls 6 blanks and 1 skull, pays an energy to treat the skull result as a critical result which then yields one more blank, then an enemy ghost rider can activate wicked judgment and deal 1 damage to him?

Yes. 

For all purposes that die is now a Critical. It is no longer a Failure. Rules that affect dice with a Failure result will not count it. 

[Nobility]

1 hour ago, Negoldar said:

Yes. 

For all purposes that die is now a Critical. It is no longer a Failure. Rules that affect dice with a Failure result will not count it. 

So cloak of shadows text specifically states that you treat the failure as a crit “for the remainder of this attack.”

Ghost Rider is unable to activate wicked’s judgment until after the attack completely resolves. Per the above text on cloak of shadows, you’re no longer treating the failure as a crit because you’re no longer in the “remainder of the attack.” But ghost rider still counts it as a crit despite that?

[Negoldar]

54 minutes ago, Nobility said:

Ghost Rider is unable to activate wicked’s judgment until after the attack completely resolves. Per the above text on cloak of shadows, you’re no longer treating the failure as a crit because you’re no longer in the “remainder of the attack.” But ghost rider still counts it as a crit despite that?

Attacks are not fully resolved until the timing chart is complete. That happens after step 14c is complete.