Count Dooku - Surely you can do better and Twice the pride quastion

[bacakg]

Hi,

In a couple of topics here on the forum, you stated that Surely you can do better and Twice the pride can be used for the same attack. For example, after dice are rolled you can use Surely you can do better to remove 1-3 hits, and then activate Twice the pride if there are no more hits in the pool.

I would like to know how is this possible when these are both reactive abilities, and during one trigger you can use only one of those abilities. How I read it, or you manage to remove all hits and you can use Twice the pride, or you didn't and you have the option to use Surely you can do better to remove 1-3 hits. Can you please let me know what is the correct answer here, can those two be used simultaneously or not? And if yes how does this override rule of one reactive ability per trigger?

Kind regards

[Negoldar]

On 7/11/2023 at 10:44 AM, bacakg said:

Can you please let me know what is the correct answer here, can those two be used simultaneously or not? And if yes how does this override rule of one reactive ability per trigger?

These abilities do not share the same triggering event. Per the errata, Surely You Can Do Better's trigger event is the model defending and Twice the Pride, Double the Fall's trigger is an attack, with the conditions that it was a melee attack against an allied character within range 2.

[Cripsaxman08]

Can you clarify how the linked ruling fits with the ruling from this thread?

[Thoras]

5 hours ago, Cripsaxman08 said:

Can you clarify how the linked ruling fits with the ruling from this thread?

When checking the errata in the FAQ and Errata document, you can see the text from both abilities is significantly different. They don't mention the same wording for the trigger event. If there is a more specific point you'd like clarified, please let us know.

[Cripsaxman08]

The point I'm asking about is the situation where Dooku uses Twice the Pride after an attack that targeted Dooku due to the fact that Dooku is allied to himself. If Dooku had already used Surely You Can Do Better in step 6A(II), I'm assuming you can now not use Twice the Pride in Step 10D since this would be, as you have said "One triggering event."

[Thoras]

On 3/7/2024 at 3:12 PM, Cripsaxman08 said:

If Dooku had already used Surely You Can Do Better in step 6A(II), I'm assuming you can now not use Twice the Pride in Step 10D since this would be, as you have said "One triggering event."

I'm not sure where you feel that has been said about Coont Dooku's abilities. As you can see from the original reply in this thread, they are not the same triggering event.

On 7/12/2023 at 1:17 PM, Negoldar said:

These abilities do not share the same triggering event. Per the errata, Surely You Can Do Better's trigger event is the model defending and Twice the Pride, Double the Fall's trigger is an attack, with the conditions that it was a melee attack against an allied character within range 2

 

[Cripsaxman08]

So Dooku defending from an attack is not the same event as the attack that Dooku was defending from? 

E.G. Anakin targets Dooku with a melee attack. Dooku is defending (defined at step 3A) and can use Surely You Can Do Better during step 6A(II). The attack proceeds and there are no hit success in the attack.  During step 10D Dooku uses Twice the Pride Double the Fall. 

Is this legal even though both abilities were used during the same attack which from your previous ruling was ruled as "One event?"

[Thoras]

On 3/9/2024 at 10:09 PM, Cripsaxman08 said:

So Dooku defending from an attack is not the same event as the attack that Dooku was defending from?

Correct. Surely You Can Do Better's trigger is a more granular event then Twice the Pride Double the Fall's event.

On 3/9/2024 at 10:09 PM, Cripsaxman08 said:

Is this legal even though both abilities were used during the same attack which from your previous ruling was ruled as "One event?"

Yes, because the trigger events the rules are looking for are different. An ability looking for the trigger event of an attack does not preclude other abilities that look at more or less granular events from also being used.