Timing clarification: Conditions on abilities (Unwitting Brute Range Check and Count Dookus Tactic)

[hifivecat]

Hi, I would like to clarify the intended timing with abilities that state at the start of a unit's activation or have conditions such as distance. Specifically, the example of How Count Dooku's, Leader of the Separatist army and Savage Oppresses Unwitting Brute ability work when Count Dooku is activated.

Appendix A states that you resolve Tactic Abilities before other player abilities so the order of how to apply them is simple. I am interested in when conditions on abilities are checked. In the step where the ability resolves?

There are two trains of thought here in my playgroup. That the range is checked when it says "Start of the units activation" and we establish the game state and what will occur then move to resolve them as stated in timing appendix (2.C / 2.D). The other is that the abilities like this check their conditions when they come up in 2.D as a player effect based on the current game state.

 

The base and simple interaction here is something like:  Dooku and Savage are within 3 at the beginning of the turn. Dooku's tactic resolves giving Dooku and Savage each a dash and they are still within 3 afterwards. Unwitting Brute resolves and Savage gets another Dash. This is the simple scenario where the condition is always true.

There are two scenarios I would like to clarify:

A: Dooku and Savage are within 3 at the beginning of the turn. Dooku's tactic resolves giving Dooku and Savage each a dash and they are no longer within 3 afterwards. Would unwitting Brute result in a dash here?

B: Dooku and Savage are not within 3 at the beginning of the Turn. Dookus tactic ability resolves giving him a dash and he ends within 3 of Savage. Would unwitting Brute result in a dash here?

 

Thanks 

[Negoldar]

2 hours ago, hifivecat said:

Would unwitting Brute result in a dash here?

A. No. 

2 hours ago, hifivecat said:

Would unwitting Brute result in a dash here?

B. Yes. 

Respectively. 

[Blipvert]

Why in example B can Savage dash? It’s no longer the start of Dooku’s activation because because Dooku has dashed using his Tactic. 
 

It sounds like you’re saying that the Tactic is not part of the activation. 

[Negoldar]

1 hour ago, Blipvert said:

Why in example B can Savage dash? It’s no longer the start of Dooku’s activation because because Dooku has dashed using his Tactic. 
 

It sounds like you’re saying that the Tactic is not part of the activation. 

It is still the start of the activation.

You have not left the timing step for start of the activation effects (step 2). You resolved the Tactic ability at step 2C and Unwitting Brute’s criteria is checked and the ability resolves during step 2D. 

[Sleboda]

Is this functionality different from the Talzin/Oppress double dash combo that was previously affirmed to allow the double dash?

Wasn't the range check already performed for both things, triggering both effects?

Thanks.

[Thoras]

On 1/11/2024 at 3:18 PM, Sleboda said:

Is this functionality different from the Talzin/Oppress double dash combo that was previously affirmed to allow the double dash?

No, this is the same type of interaction.

On 1/11/2024 at 3:18 PM, Sleboda said:

Wasn't the range check already performed for both things, triggering both effects?

The range is checked at the time you are resolving the rule.

You've started the characters activation, so you are at the "Start of activation" timing for rules.

You now have the opportunity to begin resolving rules that trigger here.

You have one that can trigger. If you want to use it, you may declare it and resolve it. When complete, you are still in that timing step. Check for another rule that can resolve based on how the battlefield is now