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Timing, Leadership, Dazed and Asgardians question.


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The situation was this: Un-activated Hela took damage that caused her to become dazed. 

Could I have used Thor's Leadership ability to heal her? If so, would she have lost Dazed? Would she then be able to activate? (Yes, if I had had a Field Pack Tactics cards, this wouldn't matter. I had Medpac.) My instinct, and the ruling we reached, was no. Were we right?

According to the wording of Thor's Leadership ability: "At the start of each or your turns, one allied character may spend one (power). If they do, remove one damage or one special condition from that character. Each allied character may use this leadership once per round." That would imply at the start of each characters activation (turn), that character can use Thor's ability. Can you use this ability only on Thor's activation?

According to the FAQ (070821): "Q: When  character is Dazed and has a Leadership ability does my team still gain the benefit of that Leadership? A: Yes, they do! When a character is Dazed they retain their Leadership abilities, but not superpowers. However, a Leadership ability no longer benefits a squad once the character is KO'd." If this works for all characters trying to use the Leadership ability, on their turn, it would seem a Dazed character can use the ability, however;

Finally, according to the rule on Dazed (Page 7 main rulebook): "A character with a Dazed token can't move or be moved for any reason and can't be targeted by attacks or be affected by special rules or superpowers. Dazed characters can't make attacks or play Team Tactic cards and don't have superpowers. ... Additionally, Dazed characters cannot activate during the Activation Phase." This would seem to say that you could/should declare that the character is "Passing", which implies the character is taking a turn, just not activating. 

The above references are a bit confusing, since the FAQ is referring to the character with the Leadership ability, yet the rule on dazed says that the character cannot activate.

A post on this forum adds to my confusion: Per Negoldar (mod): (Thread) Infinity War League - "A Matter of Time" Crisis Card
By RJ1040, (May 17) The card says "At the start of a character activation, if it is holding a Time Fragment roll 1 die. If the result is Crit, Wild, or Hit they may make an additional action this turn. Otherwise, they gain the Stagger special condition." When activating a character can you resolve this effect from the Crisis card first and then use Thor's leadership - Prince of Asgard - to spend 1 power and remove the Stagger you may have gotten from the Time Fragment? 

Negoldar (May 18) You cannot. Thor’s Leadership activates at the beginning of the turn, before selecting a character to activate. 

According to this answer, his Leadership ability happens at the start of the Activation Phase, but before choosing a character to activate, which is not the way the ability reads, and changes the timing of the ability greatly.

So, there is the problem. If Thor's leadership ability is done on his turn, I could have healed her and removed the Dazed token. If it is done on each characters activation, it boils down to is Leadership an ability or a power, and can a Dazed character still use it. If a Leadership ability can be used by a Dazed character, I could have healed her, but then there's the issue of if she regains her activation, which is what I would expect to happen.

Mods please help!

 

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12 hours ago, David Drake said:

Could I have used Thor's Leadership ability to heal her? If so, would she have lost Dazed? Would she then be able to activate? (Yes, if I had had a Field Pack Tactics cards, this wouldn't matter. I had Medpac.) My instinct, and the ruling we reached, was no. Were we right?

No. Dazed characters cannot be affected by special rules. She would not be able to heal from Prince of Asgard.

12 hours ago, David Drake said:

Can you use this ability only on Thor's activation?

Prince of Asgard is used at the start of each of your turns before you select a character to activate that turn or Pass.

12 hours ago, David Drake said:

According to the FAQ (070821): "Q: When  character is Dazed and has a Leadership ability does my team still gain the benefit of that Leadership? A: Yes, they do! When a character is Dazed they retain their Leadership abilities, but not superpowers. However, a Leadership ability no longer benefits a squad once the character is KO'd." If this works for all characters trying to use the Leadership ability, on their turn, it would seem a Dazed character can use the ability, however;

Leadership abilities are not superpowers. When a character is dazed they do not have any superpowers. The FAQ entry is noting the difference between the two. A dazed character cannot be affected by special rules, however, so an active Leadership cannot affect them. 

12 hours ago, David Drake said:

According to this answer, his Leadership ability happens at the start of the Activation Phase, but before choosing a character to activate, which is not the way the ability reads, and changes the timing of the ability greatly.

The leadership can be used at the start of the player's turn--not the start of the Activation Phase. 

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@Negoldar, Thanks for the quick reply! Your answers clarify things nicely, especially the one about how Prince of Asgard is timed. Our confusion seems to come from how Leadership is "counted"; as an ability, or as a special rule, or as a power. Your answer is as a special rule, which covers the issue nicely.

Glad we did it right, even if I lost the game.

Thanks again!

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