Beam/Area Attacks, Shadow Organization, and Targeting in General

[Sleboda]

The rules for Beam and Area Attacks tell us that they do not target models and that they do target models. I find this very confusing, especially when considering Shadow Organization.

In the case of Beam Attacks, in particular, it says to place the range tool and then attack each enemy hit by the template. Shadow Organization says that enemy characters must be within 2 in order to target the affected models. Since the Beam does not, as written, declare a target, what happens when the Beam attack is made (assuming a Beam length of, say, 4 and all enemies being over 2 away)?

1. The Beam still hits the enemies who have had Shadow played on them.

2. The Beam cannot be made at all as there are no enemies closer than 2, despite the Beam being 4 long.

3. The Beam is wasted.

[Thoras]

You do still need to be able to target characters to perform a beam or area attack against them. If a character has played Shadow Organization, enemy characters must be within range 2 of them to target them with an attack, even if its a beam or area attack.

In the scenario you describe, since there are no enemy characters within range 2, the character won't be able to make the attack at all due to the fact that you can't make an attack without having a target.

 

[Sleboda]

59 minutes ago, Thoras said:

You do still need to be able to target characters to perform a beam or area attack against them. If a character has played Shadow Organization, enemy characters must be within range 2 of them to target them with an attack, even if its a beam or area attack.

In the scenario you describe, since there are no enemy characters within range 2, the character won't be able to make the attack at all due to the fact that you can't make an attack without having a target.

 

Thanks.

 

So, what if one model is either within 2 or another model is within 4 (in this example) but other Shadowed models are touched by the Beam but are not within 2. Are all models hit by the Beam or only those within 2?

 

[Thoras]

11 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Thanks.

 

So, what if one model is either within 2 or another model is within 4 (in this example) but other Shadowed models are touched by the Beam but are not within 2. Are all models hit by the Beam or only those within 2?

 

If there is a character that didn’t play Shadow Organization or there is a character that did play it, but that character is within range 2, the enemy character will be able to make the attack.

They will not be able to target a character that played Shadow Organization if it is not within range 2 though, regardless of whether that character is under the beam.

 

[Sleboda]

On 11/17/2021 at 10:26 PM, Thoras said:

If there is a character that didn’t play Shadow Organization or there is a character that did play it, but that character is within range 2, the enemy character will be able to make the attack.

They will not be able to target a character that played Shadow Organization if it is not within range 2 though, regardless of whether that character is under the beam.

 

Cool. Thanks again. 

I'm sorry if I'm just being dense (highly likely), but what I think is at the heart of my confusion is the seeming contradiction in the Beam/Area attacks rule. They say both that they don't target models and that they do. 

I'm really trying to get my head around the question of how to make sense of this. How can I, as a player on one side of the table, convince my opponent on the other side that his models are targets while he says they are not targets, and the very same rules passage to which we are both referring tells each of us that we are correct?

[Negoldar]

Beam and area attacks do not follow normal targeting rules. That’s what the first part of the rule is about in both sections. 

The second part describes how to resolve the beam/area against each character within range. When resolving the attack against an individual character the attacker still needs to be able to target them for the attack to proceed.