Grievous Wounds vs. Various Effects

[fingerguns]

With clarity, the tactics card Grievous Wounds prevents damage from being removed during the activation phase.

Field dressing removes one damage and the daze token.

The rulebook states that, "when a character has Damage tokens equal to its Stamina stat, it has been Dazd or Knocked Out (KO'd).  

 

So a character suffering from the effects of Grievous Wounds would remove the dazed token, but no damage and become dazed.  Correct?

 

Bonus, if correct, does the character become dazed prior to the resolution of field dressing, after, or at another time?

[Thoras]

Apologies for this covering several scenarios, but its all basically the same question, so hopefully it's acceptable

How are the following scenarios supposed to work? I've listed my understanding of how the rules would currently interact

I'm particularly interested in the answer considering the direction we have in regards to multiple pieces of a special rule being dependent on the each preceding piece of the special rule(per the FAQ).

Field Dressing
- Two scenarios
- Scenario 1
  - It's used on a model that was dazed by the grievous wounds attack
  - (Can Happen) Remove the dazed token
  - (Prevented by grievous wounds) Remove 1 damage

  - Since we were unable to remove a damage token, the dazed token would just be immediately replaced. So you can still technically play the card, but it doesn't do much

- Scenario 2
  - Its used on a model that was attacked but not dazed with the grievous wounds attack and who gained a dazed token through other means(Say "All you've got")
  - (Can Happen) Remove the dazed token
  - (Prevented by grievous wounds) Remove 1 damage

  - It would remove the dazed token, but not the damage. The model would still have its activation token(in this specific case), but you could prevent it from flipping from healthy to injured.

The Age of ultron
- (Can Happen) Ultron is not removed from the battlefield
- (Can Happen) He removes all special conditions
- (Can Happen) Flips his card to the healthy side
- (Prevented by grievous wounds) Removes all damage
- (Prevented by the FAQ ruling on multiple pieces) Drops all objective tokens
- (Prevented by the FAQ ruling on multiple pieces) May be placed within 3 of his current location

So we end up with an Ultron on his healthy side, with no special conditions, 5/6 health, while still carrying any objective tokens he had and in the same exact position he was in.

Deal with the Devil
- (Can Happen) Choose another allied character
- (Can Happen) Ghost rider removes all special conditions
- (Prevented by grievous wounds) Removes all damage
- (Prevented by the FAQ ruling on multiple pieces) Removes activated tokens
- (Prevented by the FAQ ruling on multiple pieces) Drops all objective tokens
- (Prevented by the FAQ ruling on multiple pieces) Placed within 1 of the chosen character
- (Prevented by the FAQ ruling on multiple pieces) etc...

So Ghost rider still ends up KO'd in this case, since the removal of the damage is higher in the condition chain, thus preventing all lower conditions from resolving

Queen of Hel
- (Prevented by grievous wounds) Remove all damage
- (Prevented by the FAQ ruling on multiple pieces) Remove caputred soul tokens
- (Prevented by the FAQ ruling) It is not KO'd

So you can still use the ability potentially, but nothing happens for Hela (But it would potentially trigger other abilities like Soul Gem since you technically used a power)

[Thoras]

What is the Appendix A timing of grievous wounds?

I would assume it has to be step 12 of appendix A (Although that understanding is potentially tied up with other pending rules forum questions of mine)

If that's true, I assume it actually has to occur before the damage is assigned, so something prior to the current step 12.a of appendix A?

I'm basing this on the ruling stated here(https://forums.atomicmassgames.com/topic/216-deal-with-the-devil/?do=findComment&comment=2301) which states that if a model becomes dazed during the resolution of an attack, no further special rules can resolve against it.

If it doesn't occur before the current Step 12.A of appendix A, it would seem like it can't be applied to dazed characters.

Along that line of thought, an attack that could potentially daze the model prior to Step 12 of Appendix A (Say triggering the throw on Thor's Strike) means that grievous wounds wouldn't be applied for two reasons. 1. Because damage from the throw isn't damage from the attack & 2. the throw dazes the model prior to the check for the attack doing damage

Does all of that check out?

[Brentgrice]

Hello all, if grevious wounds is played on ghost rider and then he uses his card to replace another character.   Do the wounds come off him when he knocks out his friendly character or do the wounds stay on him?

[Negoldar]

@fingerguns  @Thoras @Brentgrice

I combined these threads together as they are all very similar. I’m going to focus on answering Thoras’s questions as they are the most detailed and should answer all of your questions. Please let me know if I have not covered everything. 

Timing:

Grievous Wounds is applied with the damage during step 12 of the timing chart. It will apply if the attack dazes the target. 

Field Dressing:

Grievous Wounds is removed when it says it is removed so it will remain active on a dazed character until the activation phase ends. 

If Field Dressing is used on the character affected by this card, the dazed token will be removed but no damage will. If the dazed character has damage equal to its stamina, it will immediately be dazed again.

The Age of Ultron and Deal with the Devil:

The intention in the rules is for all effects on a character to expire when it is KO’d. For both of these tactic cards the character is KO’d before any effect of the card is resolved. This will be made clear in the future. 

When either of these cards are played on a character affected by Grievous Wounds, Grievous Wounds will have expired (due to the KO), and these cards will then resolve normally. 

Hela, Queen of Hel:

Hela will be KO’d. Her Queen of Hel superpower happens instead of being KO’d. As a result Grievous Wounds will not expire. She will not remove the damage and so will be KO’d as the damage will still be equal to her stamina. 

One minor note on this one: the fact that she cannot remove damage does not stop her from removing the souls. Those removals are not in their own dependent clauses. They are part of the same clause and would happen together. In the end, however, it is moot as she will be KO’d regardless. 

[FrankyMcShanky]

On 1/11/2021 at 1:06 PM, Negoldar said:

Field Dressing:

Grievous Wounds is removed when it says it is removed so it will remain active on a dazed character until the activation phase ends. 

If Field Dressing is used on the character affected by this card, the dazed token will be removed but no damage will. If the dazed character has damage equal to its stamina, it will immediately be dazed again.

So, in that instance, would Field Dressing then trigger effects that occur when a character becomes Dazed?  For example, Hela's Goddess of Death since it doesn't stipulate an enemy effect triggering it like Frank Castle's The Fallen does.

 

[Negoldar]

Yes, it would.